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Here's a transcript of the chat that we had with the folks from Mikado (some of my spelling edited, hehe):
18:33:31 [glen]
Hi folks. Welcome to today's chat with
the folks from Mikado. Please keep in mind that this chat
will be published. Embarassing statements can be edited out
for a fee 18:55:01
[Mikado] Hello Glen,
Krona, Danal! 18:55:19
[Krona] Hi 18:55:22
[jordanp] Hey
guys... 18:55:46
[Laurens] Goodnight
everyone 18:56:28
[Gregg/Fig8] hi all
18:56:50
[Laurens] I had some
questions but they are already answered by an email I sent
to Mikado 18:57:18
[Mikado] Yes, we try
hard! 18:57:23
[danal] Hello everyone
18:57:52
[Laurens] Are there
special prices at intermodellbau? 18:58:18
[Mikado] Hi Laurens,
you are writing from Europe? 18:58:25
[glen] Well, I'm glad
we got some people here. I always worry about getting too
many in here 18:58:30
[Laurens] yes,
Holland 18:59:10
[Mikado] Laurens, we
are always prepared for the Dutch invasion in April in
Dortmund. Don't worry. 19:00:09
[Laurens] 19:00:22
[glen] What motor setup
is ralf currently using in the stretched LOGO 10? 19:00:45
[Mikado] So, what do
you guys want to know? About LiPolys, new stuff at Mikado,
... 19:00:46
[Gregg/Fig8] Mikado>
What upgrades can we expect in the future for the Logo
10? 19:01:02
[danal] Mikado: Do you
regard your primary way of communicating with customers in
the US as: 1) Your Web site? 2) Dealers/wholesalers 3) Glen
19:01:13
[Mikado] Streched LOGO
10 motor set: Tango 45-10 with 14 cells 19:01:20
[Laurens] Are there new
things coming before intermodellbau? 19:01:28
[glen] NEW STUFF!
19:03:31
[Mikado] Communication
with US customers: At this point, a mixed system seems to
work. Glen is a big help, wholesaler/dealer can solve a lot
of questions, but we are always here to help. Later on,
maybe that will shift a bit. 19:03:32
[glen] Welcome
tim! 19:04:02
[tim] Hi.
thanks. 19:04:45
[Mikado] Every year we
show our major developments at the Toy Fair in Nuremberg.
One of our new items will be the LOGO 10 carbon. Some of you
saw a protype in Muncie. 19:05:33
[Laurens] I would be
nice to have a indoor Logo 19:05:54
[Laurens] you mean
there will be an upgraded logo in intermodellbau
too? 19:05:59
[glen] Mikado> Have
you been following the experiments with high voltage on the
LOGO 10 - such as is allowed with 8S2P cells? Seems to give
super performance.... 19:06:01
[Mikado] We agree!
(about the indoor Logo) 19:07:07
[Mikado] The Logo 10
carbon should be available in the spring of 2004 (in time
for Intermodellbau at Dortmund) 19:08:39
[Mikado] Glen, yes we
have followed those experiments. The 8S2SP story is very
exciting. We'll get ourselves a pack over here. At the
moment I (Ralf) am flying 4S4P and 5S4P in Logo
10. 19:08:41
[Laurens] And what will
the costs be? I think too expensive for me anyway 19:09:52
[glen] What is the
advantage of the carbon LOGO 10? The plastic frame seems
quite strong... 19:10:18
[Gregg/Fig8] the
plastic flexes under high voltage 19:10:28
[danal] I'm most
curious about the web site. It's motorization in particular
seems to much more conservative than what people do in the
US. 19:10:50
[glen] You know, you
CAN choose a different colour 19:11:22
[Mikado] Glen,
everything is relative. There is still room for rigidity.
LOGO 10 carbon will have close to maximum rigidity. We have
developed servo frames which can be taken out and be put
back very easily. 19:12:12
[Gregg/Fig8] servo
frames? like a bolt on servo bay? 19:12:17
[Laurens] And, carbon
looks better 19:12:28
[glen] Ah, good new
about the servo frames - fitting servos to the plastic
frames takes time.... 19:12:29
[danal] While I would
never expect the web site to be as timely as various
forums... it still seems odd that the official MIkado web
site is about 1-2 wind "cooler" than common practice in the
US; example: Kontronik Fun 600-18 or Hacker 13L is common,
web site shows 17 and 15... 19:12:35
[Mikado] Danal, you are
right. We are beginning to understand that the avarage US
pilot will fly much more rpm than the avarage
European. 19:13:28
[Gregg/Fig8] that is a
great idea 19:13:55
[danal] Servo frames
sound nice! 19:14:14
[Mikado] On motor
recommendations: Sometimes it can be hard to recommend
something that the motor manufacturer does not recommend for
the given application. 19:14:57
[Mikado] Gregg, can you
describe what you mean with different words? (Sorry, the
language barrier..) 19:15:19
[danal] Ah, that (motor
manufacturer recommend) makes sense... I understand why you
must uphold that relationship on the official
site. 19:15:23
[glen] Yes, and then
take the blame for burned out motors 19:16:16
[Krona] Any thoughts
regarding a different Hiller mixing arm that would allow a
hotter mixing like 1:1? 19:17:06
[Mikado] Krona, you
intend more cyclic response with your idea? 19:17:18
[Krona] yes 19:17:43
[danal] [shameless
begging=ON] Hey, if you're looking for a beta tester in
the US for servo frames / carbon, I have all the gear ready
to go into a Logo 3d kit (that's on backorder) for my second
L10... [shameless begging=OFF] 19:18:43
[Mikado] to Krona: We
have found a very good setting for 3D. 400 mm flybar with
light 3D paddles no. 2359. The current mixing arms work will
with that. Incredible response. Try it! 19:18:49
[Laurens] and if you
search for a carbon 10 tester in Europe I'll sacrifice
myself 19:19:33
[danal] I've seen some
references to flying a Plettenberg Orbit 15-14 in a Logo 10?
Have you seen this? 19:20:30
[Mikado] To all you
potential testers: Ralf and his crew test in-house. Every
day, weather permitting. 19:21:01
[glen] 19:21:04
[Mikado] Orbit 15-14 is
good for beginners, soft flying and soft aerobatics. Good
flight times! 19:21:12
[Krona] Ok I will try
the 400mm flybar. I have 3D paddles and everything is
working well but requires big deflections and large servo
throw. Perhaps thatís beneficial.. I have not seen
any bindong. 19:21:32
[Krona] That's Binding
19:21:43
[Laurens] @ everybody:
what will the flight times with a Hacker C50-13L
be? 19:22:03
[Mikado] Krona, you
need 20 mm servor arms. 19:22:14
[Krona] ok
thanks 19:22:27
[JKos] Do you have any
recommendations for cold weather flying? My L10 was awesome
when it was warmer out but now that I have to fly in
subfreezing weather it just isn't the same. 19:22:33
[Laurens] with 12 cells
GP Improved 3300 MAH Zapped and matched 19:23:21
[Krona] Laurens> I
have the same setup but with a B50 13L and I get 7.5min with
the GP3300 and 6.5min with the HRSC2600 19:23:33
[Reesy] Ralf, hello
have any of you tried a Tango 45-15 in a logo10? 19:23:43
[glen] JKos, what
batteries? 19:23:54
[JKos]
GP3300 19:23:59
[jordanp] Laurens>
pinion? 19:24:13
[Mikado] Cold-weather
flying is not as pleasant. The balllinks will shrink and the
linkeagers are not as easy-going. The dampening will be
harder. Try to take the heli out of the heated car and fly
it right away. Keep the batteries warm. That
helps. 19:24:16
[Laurens] euhm, 13 I
think 19:24:20
[Laurens] for a
beginner 19:24:34
[glen] JKos, they need
to be hot off the charger.... 19:24:38
[Mikado] Reesy: No I
have not yet tried that motor. 19:25:03
[Reesy] What about the
45-10? 19:25:16
[jordanp] Laurens>
you should get excellent flight times with a 13 tooth
pinion, consider getting a 14 tooth for later... 19:25:31
[Mikado] To Reesy: The
45-10 is a hot set-up for 3D (with 14 cells). 19:26:14
[Reesy] I have 4S4P
8000 TP lipo's I want it smokin' !!! 19:26:22
[JKos] I agree, part of
it probably the head tightening up. And keeping the
batteries hot is a challenge. 19:27:21
[JKos] Ralf, what motor
and pinion are using with the 5S4P pack? 19:27:37
[glen] JKos - the fit
to alu ball bolts gets really tight, so I "beat up" a set of
double links to get loose enough for winter
flight.... 19:28:07
[danal] I can see a new
accessory at dealers soon: The Heli-Oven! 19:28:38
[Mikado] With the 5S4P
pack I am using a Hacker C50-14L and a 14 T pinion. I fly
with 1750 rpm. This is the most powerful motorization I have
every flown. 19:29:17
[Krona] Heli-Oven
19:30:07
[JKos] Heli-Oven,
Battery-Oven, and Pilot-Oven 19:30:20
[Mikado] My experience
is that the LiPolies don't like too high
currents. 19:30:42
[Laurens] Mikado> do
you have some pics of the new carbon frame? 19:31:13
[danal] Ralf, do you
personally fly curves or governor mode? 19:31:17
[Mikado] We keep
everything under cover until the Toy Fair, sorry. 19:31:29
[Mikado] I fly governor
mode. 19:31:31
[glen] I leave my van
running and nice and toasty inside. I leave the heli outside
to keep the gear acclimated to the cold, install HOT
batteries and go fly. 19:33:54
[Krona] I know this is
of topic, but is there an RC calendar online so I can keep
track of all these European toy fairs. Iíd love to go
one day. 19:34:35
[JKos] Ralf, according
to numbers and math, you are flying that 5S4P setup at about
72% throttle. Do you have any heat issues with that
setup? 19:34:44
[danal] Battery oven
really does seem to make a difference. It's just been in the
40s (F) in Texas and I can still tell the difference between
a pack fresh from the car vs. one that's sat out and cold
soaked. 19:34:58
[glen] Ralf, what's
your current setup for the Bionic? 19:35:03
[Mikado] Hi Krona, I
don't know about an online calendar, but the ones we go to,
are in my diary. You can send us an email. We can send you
the dates for those. 19:35:56
[Mikado] JKos, at the
moment it is only 5 degrees Celsius over here (durning the
day). I am already worried that next summer I might have
heat problems. 19:36:00
[Laurens] Krona>
Intermodellbau is between 16-20 April I think 19:36:03
[Krona] I will take you
up on that offer.. Is it perhaps posted on your website?
(where Mikado goes) 19:36:48
[Laurens] Search on
google for intermoddelbau and Westfalenhallen
Dortmund 19:36:56
[Mikado] Bionic motor
set up: I am still flying the Plettenberg A300/30/A3 with 26
cells. 19:37:00
[Krona] Laurens>
Thanks 19:37:53
[Laurens] Krona, where
do you live? 19:38:40
[danal] Yah, that 5s4p
setup would be at 90% throttle with an 11 tooth pinion, or
the C50 -18L on that 14t pinion. Might help keep the ESC
cooler. 19:38:41
[glen] Hi
Gary! 19:38:45
[Mikado] We have new
500 mm blades in black carbon optics (item no. 2713). They
are on their way to the US at the moment. 19:39:37
[danal] 2713 blades:
Only color difference... or any aerodynamic (vs. the
existing white Mikado 500s) 19:39:48
[Mikado] To Dana: I
will try the C50-15L next. 19:39:52
[Krona] Laurens> PA
USA 19:40:02
[Laurens] Ok 19:40:09
[JKos] Ralf, when
testing motor/battery/pinion combos do you get quantitative
using something like a WhattMeter or do you fly and see how
it feels? 19:40:35
[Mikado] The 2713
blades have the same aero-dynamic properties as the 2712
blades. But the looks is new. 19:40:54
[GGoodrum] Hi guys. I
just got home in time to participate. 19:41:03
[danal] Hi
Gary! 19:41:47
[Krona] Gary.. Our
favorite High Voltage guy 19:41:52
[Mikado] JKos, I have
developed a reliable judgement for set-ups, as I deal with
electric flying for 10 years. 19:42:17
[glen] Hi
LH! 19:42:25
[LH] hi 19:42:48
[GGoodrum] Thx. I'm
still trying to figure out this "chatting" thing. It's
actually my first. 19:43:33
[Mikado] Guys, is there
a heli meeting to which all of you would go? 19:44:17
[Mikado] This year I
went to NEAT in New York , but there were only a hand full
electric heli flyers. 19:44:41
[danal] Depends a
little bit on travel, but yes, I've been gowing to Glow
fun-fly's in the south as one of the few electric flyers...
so I'd be willing to travel further to a more electric
oriented event. 19:44:42
[Mikado] North America
is toooo big! 19:44:45
[glen] Chiliwack
19:44:54
[Mikado] I knew it,
Glen. 19:45:23
[Mikado] :-) But the
Texan people won't go to Chiliwack, I suppose. 19:45:35
[GGoodrum] Okay, I
think I have it now. Ralf, how about the Mid-Winter Electric
event in San Diego this coming Feb? 19:46:00
[glen] This year at
Chilliwack, the most plentiful model (including aircraft) wa
the LOGO 19:46:09
[Mikado] I am busy with
the Toy Fair until the 14th of Feb. Is it at the end of
Feb? 19:46:23
[danal] Yah, NA is big
and it's a barrier to cross the drive-fly line when carrying
helis. For me, this is about a 700-1000 mile radius, so that
only covers a few states around Texas. 19:46:39
[Reesy] Now then Gary
..good to see you could make it 19:47:54
[Mikado] When is the
Mid Winter heli meeting in San Diego?? 19:48:00
[Reesy] The 4S4P with
Tango 45-10 thing ... will current be a problem? 19:48:22
[Mikado] HI Gary!
(Greatest LOGO pilot of all times) 19:48:26
[glen] I would drive a
fair distance to a good e-heli meeting, but not to a large
glow meeting where there's a ton of fliers.... 19:48:33
[gwright] was on the
golf course and had a SLOOOW foursome ahead of us
<G> 19:48:43
[danal] I've never been
to an event with the really, really "big name" 3d guys. So
next year, I'll probably go to Larks in Louisiana just to
see that. 19:48:54
[GGoodrum] Ralf, it is
the weekend of the 13-14 Feb. Too bad! I'd love to meet
you! 19:49:00
[gwright] good
afternoon Ralf/Inge/others 19:49:17
[glen] HI
Gary! 19:49:45
[danal] I would
consider much more travel to attend an event where I knew
there would be significant e-heli presence, particularly
Logo/Mikado related. 19:49:49
[Mikado] Reesy, whould
be okay concerning current. 5S4P is better
though. 19:50:11
[JKos] One more person
to break the record, right Glen? 19:50:28
[Mikado] Yes, sorry San
Diego is out. We would have liked to go. 19:50:33
[GGoodrum] Paulie! I
had to drive like a madman, but I made it! Santa Barbara to
Orange County in two hours flat! 19:51:14
[gwright] One thing I
want to do with the "10" is try a MUCH milder motor on
8S2P 19:51:22
[glen] How many are in
here? My wife's PC is not displaying that
number.... 19:51:22
[Reesy] I thought you
girlies weren't allowed to go more than 50mph 19:51:36
[gwright] 4S4P with the
13L is great, but had to go back to a 13 tooth
pinion 19:51:53
[Mikado] To Gary: I am
practising pyroflips each and every day now. I am using a
400 mm flybar in my LOGO 10 now. it works great. 19:51:54
[GGoodrum] 13, at last
count... 19:51:55
[JKos] glen>
13 19:52:07
[gwright] the 15T I had
in there for quite a while was getting the batteries a touch
hot (puffed up the cell directly over the front skid
bow) 19:52:33
[Mikado] Gary, I was
suspecting that. 19:52:38
[gwright] has anyone
tried high voltage/low current 19:52:49
[GGoodrum] Well, I flew
of course... 19:52:59
[gwright] not 5S3P, but
8S/9S,..etc. with very low current? 19:53:49
[gwright] I've got some
new plane kits I'm working on, and one is a minifan powered
jet that I'm going VERY differen with,.. 9S1P and max 20
amps 19:54:03
[Krona] What about a
7S2P Tanic 2200? 19:54:04
[gwright] total watts
goes pretty high but everything stays very cool 19:54:20
[GGoodrum] I have tried
a B50-14XL in my stretched Logo 10 with both a 8s2p Tanic
and an 8s2p TP 19:54:24
[Mikado] Are the 8S2P
TP cells available or are they special items? 19:54:40
[gwright] they have
2S2P, and 3S2P 19:54:48
[gwright] so you can
"gang together" multiple packs 19:55:26
[gwright] with 9S1P in
the minifan I'm getting just under 700 watts from a 15 ounce
battery pack! 19:55:40
[gwright] so it got me
to thinking about the same scenario in helis 19:55:51
[GGoodrum] The 8s2p TPs
are definitely available, direct from TP. 19:56:08
[gwright] need to ask
charlie about them then 19:56:37
[GGoodrum] Where have
you been? We've been trying all sorts of combos. 19:57:08
[Mikado] If there is a
heli meeting in Phoenix in March or April this year, I will
be there for sure. Would love to see you all. If anyone has
the dates for that, let me know please. 19:57:08
[gwright] I've been
doing developement for several airplane kits and not been
online a whole lot lately 19:57:25
[Mikado] I meant next
year (2004). 19:57:29
[gwright] been
neglecting the bionic and logo 20 lately, but been flying
the 10 a LOT 19:58:13
[gwright] dunno what it
is about the little guy but I just love taking the logo 10
out with 4 or 5 4S4P packs and flying lots without any
charger 19:58:17
[gwright] really
convenient 19:58:20
[Laurens] the 10 is
nice, but a Bionic rules 19:58:35
[gwright] I also need
to change power system in my bionic 19:59:08
[gwright] the 19XL on
8S4P and 12T is FANTASTIC power, but I have to fly 8 minutes
due to motor heating 19:59:24
[GGoodrum] 8s2p TPs
will work well in a Logo 10 with 500mm blades but it can't
handle the 550 blades in the stretched 10, or on the Logo
20 19:59:35
[Reesy] GaryW whats
your current motor/pinion/battery combo for your
10? 19:59:39
[gwright] without fan
motor was at just under 200F at 8minutes, with fan it's at
180 or just below 19:59:57
[danal] Ralf, are you
referring to the Pheonix Fun Fly, March 12-14 2004, hosted
by Arizona Rotory Modlers? 20:00:08
[glen] Is there any
barrier to parallelling two 8S2P packs from a LOGO 10 to use
in a Bionic? 20:00:10
[gwright] C50 13L with
13 tooth pinion, 500mm mikado blades and 4S4P TP 20:00:34
[gwright] and a FAST
tailrotor,.. that frightens Ralf <G> 20:00:37
[Mikado] Yes! I will be
there. 20:01:16
[gwright] so far,.. I
have not thrown the battery out of the heli though Ralf, so
I think it's OK when you spin it into a blurr 20:01:24
[GGoodrum] The Tanic
8s2p worked fine, in both my 10 and in a 20, but they aren't
widely available yet. 20:02:24
[gwright] My
father-in-law lives in scottsdale, and we haven't been there
since 2001 so we're (wife and I) are considering coming to
the phoenix event and staying a few days after for golf and
to visit aero-model 20:02:28
[JKos] Mikado> Here
you go: http://www.armsaz.com/PHXFF/ 20:02:58
[Laurens] Does anybody
know where I can find a English manual for
Reflex? 20:03:02
[GGoodrum] Ralf, are
you looking at the possibilities of a two-stage gearbox,
either as a retrofit to an existing product or for something
new? 20:04:07
[Mikado] No chance of a
two-stage gear box at the moment. Sorry. 20:04:52
[GGoodrum] What are the
gearing options on the Bionic? 20:05:08
[danal] Ok, a chance to
meet Ralf and Gwright, aero-model is nearby, I'm now
seriously considering Phoenix in March! 20:05:55
[GGoodrum] I'll go to
Phoenix in March too. That's pretty easy from LA. 20:06:01
[Mikado] Gearing
Options on the Bionic: 7,66 to 13,8 gear ratio 20:06:39
[Mikado] I want to win
the drag race in Phoenix (with LOGO 10)! 20:07:02
[GGoodrum] Ralf, thx,
how many teeth on the main gear? 20:07:16
[Mikado] 138 t on the
main gear of LOGO 10. 20:07:25
[Mikado] Sorry LOGO 20
and 24. 20:07:51
[GGoodrum] Okay, that's
what I thought. 20:08:52
[glen] Hehe, the
electric guys should all show up with drag racing setups
20:08:58
[JKos] Darn, Phoenix is
a was possibility for me as I don't live all that far away
(466 miles) but I was reminded that I will be in Montgomery
then. 20:09:04
[Krona] 20:09:05
[gwright] I'd like to
go 10S3P on bionic, but can't really go above 20XL motor or
resistance starts going up, and gearing isn't high enough,..
so maybe a two stage as someone mentioned earlier 20:09:41
[gwright] or a larger
(much larger) maingear 20:10:12
[GGoodrum] If you want
to win the drag race, you'll HAVE to try one of these HV
setups! I'm able to pull over 1400W in mine and it will blow
away and 50-size gasser! 20:10:15
[Mikado] Here in
Europe, people are talking of LiPoly cells, but very few
pilots own them yet. 20:10:25
[danal] Glen, since
I'll have two Logo 10s by then, I might be willing to set
one up special for drag... Let's start a logoheli.com thread
to discuss ideal drag setups. 20:10:28
[gwright] I guess that
would be dreaming though. Maingear molds are VERY VERY
expensive 20:11:12
[GGoodrum] It sure
would be nice to get 20:1 gearing though... 20:11:28
[gwright] dana,.. the
2100 TP cells I've tested to 20 amps continuous (with
cooling) and 33 amps for 2 minutes,.. so maybe 9S1P in a
logo 20, geared for 33 amps max,.....hmmm 20:11:46
[glen] danal> Cool!
I like Gary's setup if he's getting 1400W 20:12:12
[gwright] around 30~32
amps the voltage drop hits the "knee", so that's about
max 20:12:25
[GGoodrum] The 2100s
are weak compared to the 2000/2050 TP cells in a heli
application. 20:12:33
[gwright] and if you
burst too long at that, or don't have cooling, it's
sausage-city for the cells 20:12:49
[Mikado] It'll take
some practice to control 1400 W in a drag race. 20:13:06
[gwright] I know they
are a bit weaker, but he doesn't do the 200-/2050 cells in
1P packs 20:13:21
[danal] By the way...
who's "Dana"? I'm DANAL, pronounced DAN - L 20:13:38
[GGoodrum] The power is
incredible though! 20:13:42
[Laurens] I going to
sleep, tomorrow another schoolday 20:13:55
[danal] See ya
Laurens! 20:14:03
[Mikado] As teacher or
student? (To laurens) 20:14:07
[glen] Hehe Dana is LH
- Lost Horizon 20:14:20
[Laurens] Student, 16
years old 20:14:30
[Laurens] Mikado>
Tschuss 20:14:32
[GGoodrum] He will if
you ask nicely! 20:15:06
[danal] Oh hi Dana!
Didn't see LH post lately... 20:15:20
[LH] just listening...
20:16:16
[glen] Danal/Dana - saw
the conflict coming 20:16:30
[GGoodrum] Actually,
I'm at the point now that I'm going to wait for the
controllers catch up a bit before trying anything beyond
Xs2p, at least in TPs 20:16:37
[Mikado] Apologies to
Danal and Dana! 20:16:59
[danal] Yah, easily
confused. No aplogies required. 20:17:20
[glen] Dana, have you
tried to spin the bent links off your new flybar control
bridge yet? 20:17:38
[LH] tried yesterday,
but .. they held fine 20:18:06
[LH] also tried the 500
FG blades.. very crisp 20:18:06
[GGoodrum] Tomorrow,
I'm going to try 10s2p in Ben74's Logo 20 and in my Logo
10. 20:18:12
[gwright] 48-3P
controller is fine goodrum 20:18:43
[gwright] there's talk
about putting that software into the 77-3P controller, but
nothing has happened on that front yet 20:19:49
[GGoodrum] I know but
it has other problems. I've smoked a 48-3P and my friend
fried two 77-3Ps in his eRaptor. 20:20:05
[Mikado] Thank you all
for joining today. Watch out for the new stuff by Mikado at
the beginning of February. We hope to see you all in Phoenix
too. We'll sign off now. Gotta go to work tomorrow. Thanks,
Glen! 20:20:25
[LH] so long 20:20:28
[JKos] Ralf and
company, thanks for the great work bringing us new
products!!! 20:21:11
[GGoodrum] The problem
is with "older" B50-XLs running above 35,000 20:21:28
[danal] Thanks Ralf,
you've hit a real "sweet spot" in electric heli design; Keep
up the good work 20:21:33
[glen] CYA Ralf and
Inge! 20:21:58
[GGoodrum] Thanks Ralf
(and Inge)! Hope to meet you in March. 20:23:45
[danal] So Glen,
really, let's start a thread on drag racing at Logoheli. In
fact, is this worth a Forum of it's own? 20:25:20
[GGoodrum] Soo,
Paulie... Did you order the 45-15? 20:25:24
[JKos] How about a
Forum called "Super High Performance"? 20:25:46
[glen] danal> Sure,
if there enough posts, I will move them into a new
forum.... 20:26:35
[Reesy] Hi guys we
hanging around a bit? 20:27:05
[glen] I am so tortured
over whether or not to risk charging LiPo's in my apartment
now. 20:27:20
[Reesy] I got your note
re the 45-15 Ralf worries about the lipo's not liking large
currents 20:27:27
[GGoodrum] Well, I'm
still here... 20:27:32
[glen] Hi ressy. Sure -
glad you could stop in! 20:28:13
[JKos] I can stay until
my sick 20:28:15
[glen] er Reesy
20:28:25
[Reesy] I'm still
wobbling .. have the 600-18 on my bench am considering
swapping it for Tango 45-15 or 45-10 on 4S4P 20:29:10
[Reesy] I wan to go to
8S2P but have only run the 4S4P packabout 5 times including
cycling 20:30:41
[JKos] glen> I know
what you mean about the LiPo charging. However, there always
seems to be extinuating cicumstances behind the
fires. 20:30:43
[GGoodrum] What?? a
4s4p TP pack will handle plenty of current. If you still
have the 600-18, I'd use it for now and then trade the -17
in for one the 45-08 to use in a HV setup 20:32:06
[Reesy] I guess Ralf
might not be up to speed on the lipo's the 600-18 is
unopened tho I'm tempted just to use it and be done for
now 20:33:00
[Reesy] Gary, silly
question but who makes the tanics and whats the
difference? 20:34:19
[glen] JKos> I'ven
thought about rigging up some huge sand filled bunker for
charging 20:34:51
[GGoodrum] The Tanics
are based on some new 2200 mAh cells from Korea that seem to
have higher "C" ratings than the TP cells, but the cells are
bigger, making the packs harder to install. 20:34:54
[gwright] I don't use
the tanics,.. dunno who makes them, but regardless of what
I've heard on discussion groups, I don't like them. Yes,
voltage is higher under load ,.. AT FIRST,.. but with the
TP's I've seen much higher voltage under load after several
minutes discharge,..i.e. TP's seem "flatter"
rather 20:35:00
[gwright] than dropping
throughout the run 20:35:26
[danal] Reesy> I've
been flying a 600-18 with 4s4p TP (older 7800s in fact) for
many flights now. No issues. Pack temps are quite
reasonable. 20:35:42
[gwright] TP's,..
although "rated" at 6C~7C are regularly ran at 10C, and I
push them to 13C~15C in bursts 20:35:55
[danal] Glen> I
charge in a $17 (US, Walmart) "fire safe"; while monitoring
of course. 20:36:13
[gwright] gotta go,..
maybe glen with schedule these chats at a better time next
time (hint hint <G> 20:36:18
[danal] Any issues
while charging, just slam the lid, yank the wire, and carry
the whole thing outside. 20:36:51
[glen] CYA Gary! Yes we
should discuss times.... 20:37:02
[Reesy] could you not
just have a temp giage or smoke detector? 20:37:57
[danal] Reesy, the
issue seems to be sudden burst of fire. Yes, all known
incidences were from bad or mis-set charger, but the
issue/fear is the suddness of the failure. 20:38:10
[GGoodrum] From the
testing that Ben and I have been doing, it appears that
these cells are about 9C "rated", can put out up to about
12-13C when pushed and will take "bursts" up to
18-20C. 20:38:44
[Reesy] Gary Tanics or
tP's? 20:39:00
[glen] I was thinking
about getting a bit old BBQ and stash a pile of sand in the
lid... Slam shut and pull a pin 20:39:10
[GGoodrum]
Tanics 20:39:17
[danal] That would
work! 20:39:21
[JKos] Interesting idea
Danal. Perhaps I should get one of those. Is it large enough
to fit a 5S4P pack? 20:40:20
[JKos] glen> New
record at 14 today. 20:41:30
[danal] Jkos> It's a
"Sentry 1100" and it will fit a 5s4p easily at a diagonal. I
just looked with a 4s4p pack and a 2s2p held in line by
hand; it would not fit a 6s 4p. 20:41:44
[glen] Yeah JKos, I was
afraid of swamping the system - unsure of limitations. ANY
feedback about how well this chat works would be appreciated
later.... 20:42:20
[danal] I've seen these
Sentry fire safes at price points from $17 to $30, so shop
around a bit... 20:42:36
[GGoodrum] GW's
comments notwithstanding, these packs/cells hold their
voltage better and longer than the TPs, in equivalent
configurations. No contest. You can get roughly the same
performance, however, by adding a couple more TP cells in
series, as the Tanic cells weigh more. 20:42:51
[glen] The fire-proof
safe idea seems nice and compact - will lok into
that... 20:43:05
[JKos] Thanks Danal,
I'll look around. 20:43:33
[GGoodrum] Glen, do you
have a fireplace in your apartment? 20:43:43
[danal] Hi
Martin! 20:44:00
[crazylegsc] Hi
Danal 20:44:03
[glen] Speaking of new
forums, I was wondering if I should make a LiPO
forum.... 20:44:13
[JKos] If only I had
known I could have picked one up during my crazy Friday
morning shopping experience. 20:44:31
[crazylegsc] Thanks
Glen, I that all because of me?/ 20:44:32
[glen] Gary, sadly
no.... 20:45:33
[glen] Hi Martin...
sorry did not understand... 20:46:05
[crazylegsc] Nah, my
poor Dutch/english again, end of the day,
tired...... 20:46:18
[GGoodrum] Maybe a
combo High Performance/LiPo forum, as they seem to go
hand-in-hand. 20:47:03
[glen] It looks like a
pilgrimage to Phoenix is in order. ... I once went there for
a week of skydiving so, I guess a chance to hang out with a
bunch of eheli pilots would be cool 20:47:56
[crazylegsc]
Ooppss...Sorry got to go again, have a
sick kid in bed!! bye bye! 20:48:59
[Reesy] OK an idea.. if
I go 45-15 will my 55A Beat cope? 20:49:09
[GGoodrum] Yup, Phx in
March wil be great! 20:49:38
[Reesy] The 80A beat is
$400 and wrong for 8S2P 20:49:42
[GGoodrum] Paul, wait
I'll go check... 20:50:21
[danal] Last comment on
firesafe: There's a photo in this thread, scroll down a
little http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144198
that shows a 4s4p and a 2s2p sitting in an open Sentry 1100
safe 20:50:30
[JKos] I was all
excited about Phoenix until my wife reminded me that I will
be at SOS in Montgomery. 20:51:18
[Reesy] the 30-6-24 is
the opposite direction which is where I wan to end up ..I
think 20:53:33
[GGoodrum] Yeah, I'm
afraid the 55-6-30 will not handle it as you will be pulling
close to 80A under load. 20:55:04
[danal] I gotta go too.
See you guys later and hopefully in Pheonix! 20:56:57
[Reesy] Gary, you said
some new TP batts were on the horizon (6 months?) , any
ideas 20:57:03
[glen] SO did you think
we had a large emnough turnout? I Next time I might
advertise a lot more- on the website and other
forum... 20:58:37
[Reesy] Glen, could I
suggest a "what to ask Ralf" thread? 21:00:34
[JKos] I would agree
with Reesy. It would be nice to have a series of technical
questions lined up for Ralf. 21:01:47
[JKos] At times, it
seemed like several minutes would go by without any
questions that Ralf could help with. 21:03:17
[GGoodrum] Paul, yes,
there are new TP cells in work, that should "leap-frog" the
Tanics but it'll be awhile. What it will mean is that our
current Xs2p setups will probably be able to go down to
Xs1p. What I think is that 10s2p will be optimum with TP
cells now in a 10 with up to 550 blades, or a Logo
20. 21:04:36
[GGoodrum] Glen -- A
question list for Ralf is a good idea. 21:05:16
[GGoodrum] It would
help us to remember what to ask! 21:08:09
[ozace] g'day
guys 21:12:18
[glen] You mean a
thread to save up questions for the next chat? 21:14:20
[glen] Hi
Ozace! 21:16:20
[GGoodrum] Paul -- I
think I'd look at the 45-06, which will work great with a
20T and an 8s2p pack. Then later, it'll also work great with
a 10s2p config and a 16T, if you decide to
"extend". 21:22:25
[Reesy] Hi sorry me
laddo off to bed .. Hi Gary ..yes that's pretty much the way
my mind was working 21:23:06
[Reesy] The 45-10 seems
to fall too much between 2 stools 21:24:58
[GGoodrum] Yes, the
45-10 does seem to be a 'tweener. 21:27:17
[Reesy] Anyone know
what servo's ralf runs on his 10? 21:27:22
[GGoodrum] Still 7 of
us, I think... 21:29:25
[glen] Ralf WAS going
to try the 45-08 on his stretched 10, but I don not know if
he ever tried... 21:30:02
[glen] forget what
servos he had, but I thik he uises Graupner/JR 21:30:36
[glen] I used to know
how to speeel 21:32:20
[Reesy] What are the
current recommendations? I got the JR 386 before we found
the "bearing" was non existant 21:33:24
[glen] The JR3421 work
great! 21:34:09
[GGoodrum] I'm using DS
368s and haven't had a problem. 21:37:03
[Reesy] Hi Gary they
work OK so far .. I was just miffed as they were advertised
as having a bearing ..at least implied 21:37:26
[glen] Reesy> Yeah,
that sucks 21:43:06
[glen] the 361/368 work
fine, but the 3421 seems to give better
performance. 21:45:36
[Reesy] Ithink I'll
upgrade soon ..cyclics seem a bit weedy 21:46:30
[glen] I've never tried
the 368/361, but LH wrote up a little comparison for my
servo page..... 21:48:51
[GGoodrum] What about
using one of the 6V UBECs? Wouldn't that make them a bit
more speedy? 21:49:29
[Gregg/Fig8] so what
did I miss? 21:49:32
[glen] I "hear" that
the GY401/S9253 combo does not work well with
6V.... 21:50:13
[glen] Gregg/Fig8>
Just that Ralf is coming to Phoenix in March to beat up all
the drag racers 21:50:31
[Gregg/Fig8]
haha 21:50:33
[Gregg/Fig8]
cool
or other means?
Keep the entire thing warm between flights
(Kidding!)
glade you could join
daughter who is currently sleeping on my shoulder wakes
up.
I'm sure that my employer would love to evict me for that
dangerous activity though...
dang its alot to read up, any new announcments?